Getting Booksmart with Phoebe Robinson

phoebe robinson headshot

Getting Booksmart with Phoebe Robinson

In this episode of The Antidote, Amy and Grace connect with comedian, actress, and publishing maven Phoebe Robinson about expanding your world, gratitude journals, and wow moments.

Amy and Grace share their bummer news of the week: A Chick-Fil-A store in North Carolina is trying to get people to volunteer for food, and a couple in San Francisco is fighting a parking ticket they got very unexpectedly. They also share their antidotes: making new friends, and spontaneity. 

This week’s Creative Tap-In: 

“Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.” – Robert Bresson

Do you have a favorite antidote, or need an antidote suggestion? A question for Grace and Amy, or something you loved that Amy, Grace or one of their guests has said on the podcast? Share a message with The Antidote team:


BetterHelp Online Therapy - - use promo code ANTIDOTE for $20 off your purchase of $100 or more plus free shipping

The Antidote is a listener powered weekly podcast. To support the show, visit


Amy The world is a dumpster fire. I'm Amy.

Grace And I'm Grace.

Amy And we want to help.

Grace As a reflex to the f---ing madness on the news for keeping it positive, uplifting, but opinionated.

Amy We talk about cultural moments we love.

Grace Talk to people we adore.

Amy Crushes we have.

Grace And self-care we stand.

Amy During these trying times, we all need a show that focuses on joy.

Grace This is The Antidote. Hi, everyone. Welcome to another week of The Antidote. We here again.

Amy We here again. And just so you know, we're going to be going on hiatus for a few weeks, a little summer break. But don't worry, hotties, we'll be back September 14th. So in the meantime, don't be a stranger. Send us your antidotes. And if you have any requests for an antidote and anything you want to tell us that is bringing you joy, send us that, too, so slide into our dm's on Instagram at theeantidotepod. That's the with two E's. Or you can also go to our web site,

Grace So, girl, I don't know if you've seen this, but the other day I was like, in a meeting, I can't even remember who I was meeting. And then all of a sudeen I get a little alert that says that Governor Newsom is declaring a state of emergency in California because of monkeypox, bitch.

Amy I'm overwhelmed by this. I can't take another pandemic. I'm like we we barely are out of this panini. We're actually fully still inside the sandwich.

Grace Still in the panini.

Amy We're inside the panini still. And now there's something else coming up.

Grace The panini still on the George Foreman Grill cooking, you know what I'm saying? And there's.

Amy Sprinkle some monkeypox in there.

Grace Now. We got to be sprinkled with monkeypox. And I am staying in a hotel this month. And I'm just worried about that sh--.

Amy For the month?

Grace Well, not well this month. I'm going on a short trip.

Amy Gotcha. Okay. I was like, wait, Grace, what's happening? I have a guestroom. I was like. Come stay with me.

Grace I'm not- I'm not going for that long. I'm just going for a few days, but it's going to be at a hotel. And I heard that like you could get it from bedding. So obviously I'm just like, what. And so I don't even know what I'm going to do. I guess I'm going to bring like my own pillowcase or some sh--. I don't know, because.

Amy Sleep standing up.

Grace Yeah, I don't know what to do. Because, at least COVID, we didn't have to worry about the bed sheets, but now you got to worry about the bed sheets, because if somebody infected sleeps in your bed, you could get it like that.

Amy Why would someone be sleeping in your brand new hotel room? That's not going to happen, Grace. That's not going to happen. You're more likely to get bedbugs in New York.

Grace I mean, I don't know I don't know who slept there the night before. Sometimes they be trifling. Do they really change the sheets? You know, what I'm saying? What if the person who's changing the sheet has monkeypox?

Amy Oh, no, I didn't even think about that. They shouldn't be at work, though. But then again, you don't know because did you read this? The incubation period is like 7 to 21 days. I was like, that's too long.

Grace Then so you don't know you have it for seven to 21 days. So somebody could be at work changing my hotel sheets and be like that. Da-da-da-da. Monkeypox. I get monkeypox from just laying in those beds.

Amy You know what you need.

Grace I'm going to bring my own pillowcase, bring a flat sheet. And then I, you know, I always bring my weighted blanket wherever I go. So, yeah, that'll be on top of me and I'll throw that other sheet off of me, you know?

Amy Yeah, you can just burrito yourself in your weighted blanket, then you're just covered in your sheet. Yeah. Also, we were on Bridger Winegar's podcast. I Said No gifts, and I gifted him a clean pod, which is a electrical device that cleans germs off of luggage. Maybe you need one of those.

Grace I should get that for myself, you see, I ordered one in the in the mail, but it hasn't come yet and I leave soon.

Amy Oh my gosh.

Grace So I'm just like, what do I do? I'm going to go to Target and see if they have one in there.

Amy Okay. They might. They might. I feel like whatever you need to do. I had an old therapist at the very beginning of the pandemic, and she was like, Whatever you need to do to feel safe, do it. Because I was like, I'm going to be crazy and do this thing. And she's like, Why is it crazy? It makes you feel safe, so just do it, you know? And so I'm like, Bring those, yeah, bring those pillowcases. Your pillowcases are going to be nicer than the hotels anyway. Don't matter what hotel yours are. What brooklinen? One of our sponsors.

Grace Thank you Brooklinen. Yeah, I just don't. Yeah, I can't think about it. I'll be in New York so I'mma go see a Broadway show. I just like I just got to wear my mask and long sleeves. I ain't touching nobody.

Amy No, you better wear a coat. Even though it's summertime.

Grace F--- monkeypox, man. It's just once again. 2021 and 2022, I'd like to have a word.

Amy Hold my bag. They both said they both did. The Usher. Watch this. Watch this. Do, do, do do do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

Grace Watch this. Okay. Well, you wouldn't need The aAntidote if you didn't have something to get an antidote from.

Amy Well, we're starting now up top with our bummer news of the week. First up, I don't know if everybody has heard about, like I was seeing memes about Chick-Fil-A online and I wasn't really sure why. And now I know why. So there's a Chick fil A location in Henderson, North Carolina, that decided to give out chicken sandwiches. Dot, dot, dot. If you volunteered your time, they posted and I quote, We are looking for volunteers for our new drive thru express. They posted on Facebook and said that you could earn five free entrees per shift, a.k.a. one hour worked.


Grace That is trifling. I just have to say, I mean, and Chick-Fil-A is trifling anyway because, you know, they are dipped in homophobia. Yeah. And I didn't grow up with Chick-Fil-A, but I even have some gay friends who are just like, ooh, girl, that chicken is worth the homophobia. So I said, Well, let me see. Let me see what this chicken sandwich talking about. And it was I have to say, it's a regular ass chicken sandwich. Like, it's not even that good. It is. Wendy's spicy chicken, much superior to Chick-Fil-A. But I'm just like, what is this? This seems like you want to pay people in chicken sandwiches. Like, low key. I'm just like, it's like it feels a little racist too. It's just like, oh, you Blacks like chicken. Y'all going to come. Y'all going to come and work for food or whatever like we did on the plantation. My dude.


Amy Yeah. I'm like it feels like serfdom to me.


Grace You know. Like, no, man, that's not even.


Amy The part that made me mad was that the restaurant operator at that location. His name is Joel Benson. He responded to the backlash on Thursday, July 28th on Facebook and said, quote, After carefully reviewing claims, we have decided to stop this program and not move forward any further. This idea was a little too creative and the consequences unintended.


Grace Creative.


Amy End quote. I'm like, creative. I can think some other words because creative is doing a lot of work in that sentence.


Grace A little too cheap.


Amy A little too cheap. Thank you.


Grace You know what I'm saying? Y'all broke, like, with what's going on with Chick-Fil-A?


Amy Well, that's not the only bummer of the week. Something else just, like, made me feel wild this week there is a man in San Francisco who got a parking ticket after the curb he was parked by, got repainted during the night. So this couple, it's actually a man and his wife are fighting the ticket for parking in a red zone after the curb was repainted red while his car was parked in the spot. They've lived in San Francisco for decades, like many people in the city. Parking has been tough, but they had their own faithful parking spot on one corner and then one day walked out. There's a $180 ticket and the curb was freshly red. Again. We got to ask, ya'll broke?


Grace Y'all broke. Like what? What is happening like. Why is everyone acting weird? Yeah. I mean, if I park my car there and it's red the next morning, you cannot give me a ticket. And then also feels like a sneak attack because I'm sure they park the car in the evening and they woke up and then I was like, the ticket was already there. Like, why would you do this once you paint the curb or whatever, you would even put a warning on there being like, you can't park here any more.


Amy Yes. It's also crazy because of two reasons. Desiree, who's the wife of the man whose car got ticketed, she said it's clear that it wasn't there before, that the stripe wasn't there before because the city missed the spot so as not to paint their Honda's tire. And then part two. The guy, Jeff, he's a painter. So he also was able to be like, this is fresh like a detective. He was like, I'm a painter. I know when paint is fresh and this is fresh.


Grace And I'm just like, once you it's gotten to this PR level. Just. Just take the ticket off. I mean, like, obviously you guys did something shady, so just take it off. Like, what is all this fighting back or like, oh, we didn't mean to or whatever. So, you know, just don't even make these people have to go to court to fight this ticket like that. Just just y'all need $180 from these people. Just just let them go. Let em let them. Let them. And, you know, they won't park there anymore. That's.


Amy I'll tell you that much. uh. After hearing these two news stories. How are you feeling, Grace?


Grace Not great. Um monkeypox. Paying people in chicken. Illegal parking tickets. Oh, what a what a world we live in. How you feeling?


Amy What a world. You know, not much better, honestly.


Grace Okay, let's get into the antidote.


Amy So this is the segment where we tell you about the culture we consumed and the things we did this week that made us feel better about the bummer news. So Grace, besides twerking nonstop to Beyonce's new album, because I know we're still on that, what was your other antidote this week, Grace?


Grace Um. Well, my other antidote is I a made a new friend.


Amy Oh! Oh, my God. Now I want to meet them.


Grace Nice. So anyway, so the how I made this new friend is we have a mutual friend and this person is in the industry and I think is trying to make a transition to from drama to comedy. And so I was introduced to this person and so, you know, we had a lovely zoom and then I sort of offhandedly mentioned I was like, Oh, you know, I know you're new to the city. Like, let's get brunch sometime if you want to, not thinking anything of it because you know, most times you throw that kind of thing out and it never happens. And then he hit me up later and he was just like want  to go to brunch. And I was like, yes. And so we went to brunch this weekend and we just had a lovely time. We just we just talked and, you know, just new little friend. And he even told me. He's like, you're funny, you should do standup. I was like, Oh. Thank you. So, so, yeah, we just had a lovely brunch. And, you know, it has been a minute since I can say I made a new friend. And so even before the pandemonium, I feel like, yeah, I would be in events or whatever, but it would just be like a very quick Kiki, a very simple joy this week, meeting a new friend that I could alk to sometimes, you know. So that was my antidote. What about yours, Amy? What would you what was your antidote this week?


Amy Well, I love to tie our antidotes together, and I'm going to find a little tie. Tiny tie is that you spontaneously went to brunch with a new friend, and that, in fact, was my antidote. Spontaneity. I like literally.


Grace Aok rubbing off on you.


Amy Alok rubbed off on me. Our talk with Alok has stuck with me this whole summer I've been since. Since we interviewed them. It's been on my mind to, like, try and lean into moments of spontaneity. Because I feel like, you know, I feel the most fun, spontaneous when I'm on vacation, but I haven't been able to schedule a vacation. I was just I had too much work this summer and I have a vacation coming up in September, but it's so far away like it felt so far away. And I was like, How do I get spontaneous now? And I did a few spontaneous things in this past week. I one night was out like having wine with a friend, and then some people at another table were like. Talking about this dive bar they were going to, and my friend was like, Do you want to go? And I was like. Yeah. And at first, my first instinct was, no, I don't know them. I'm going to go home. But literally they were like, Y'all want to come? And we were like, Yeah. And we went. And it was so fun to go to a bar I had never been to and be at a dive bar hanging out with people I don't know, I may never see again. And also they were younger than me. So like when I bought everybody a drink, they were like, Oh my God, that is so nice. I was like, It's a dive bar. The drinks are like, $2. I'm like, It's fine. But I felt like their ric older friend.


Grace A round of drinks on me.


Amy Yeah, exactly. Two buck chuck for everyone. But then I also had an impromptu girls night with two of my girlfriends who recently met through me, and then they were like, Oh, we should hang out again. And we were all like, Yeah. And then it was like, you know, like you said, you say that sh-- all the time, like, let's hang out again. And then it happened and we were like, we did it. We literally spent like 5 minutes just being like we did it. We said we were going to do a thing and we did it. So spontaneity was my antidote, and I want to keep trying to lean into that.


Grace So, yeah, I mean, that that's great. I'm so happy that you took some spontaneous moments.


Amy I was on my Aries sh--, Grace.


Grace I know, right? Yeah, I mean, that's great. I mean, I as you know, I love spontaneity. I love, like, waking up and being like, I don't know what I'm doing today. Like, there's nothing that will stress me out more than seeing a full calendar.


Amy Opposite girl.


Grace Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything that you do, I'm just like, Oh, that sounds like every.


Amy Torture.


Grace So I'm. I'm really happy that you found joy in it. It didn't seem like you. You felt stressed out by it or anything like that. So. So I feel like that's a good, like, good sign that you can do more of that and it'll be good.


Amy Yeah. We'll be back after the break.


Grace Welcome back to The Antidote. We have a special guest today. Who is it, Amy?


Amy Our brilliant, hilarious and gorgeous guest is a writer, comedian, author, actress and publishing maven. She co-hosted the podcast Two Dope Queens, and her latest book, Please Don't Sit On My Bed in Your Outside Clothes is a New York Times best seller. She created and stars in the new Freeform TV series Everything's Trash. She is more obsessed with Peloton than Grace. And if you watch her show, you know, she pronounces Bergamont like Berger-mah, please welcome Phoebe Robinson.


Phoebe Robinson That was so good. Thanks for having me.


Grace I don't know why you want to have me and Amy and Phoebe beefing over Peloton, like, right off the jump, but. Cool. Cool.


Amy I got to call it like I see it. I mean, y'all both have little tushies, but I just want you to know. That the obsession is mutual. You have something in common.


Grace Well, you are very impressive, Phoebe, but we are not here to talk about your many, many, many accomplishments. We are here to get deep.


Amy Yeah, let's check in first. How are you feeling today? Like, for real, not small talk. Is there anything weighing on you? 


Phoebe Robinson I'm feeling. I'm feeling good. I am burnt out from work, but I feel like I got to see my brother and sister-in-law this week so it's like nice to see family. They were in town, so that was super cute. I think COVID just kind of made me like. So scared to go outside and haven't gotten it yet. Knock on wood, thank God.


Grace Me too.


Grace And you've been on set like, Oh my God.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. Yeah. And I'm so nervous about it. And like, you know, when I was doing the show, we got tested three times a week. And so I would like go to set, come home. Like I wasn't really like doing much. So I'm just trying to be like, Girl, are you just going to stay inside for the rest of your life? So now I'm just like I have, I had brunc with a friend, Nore Davis, you know.


Grace I love Nore.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. I had brunch with him today. And it was so nice. We just like went to a restaurant in Carroll Gardens and like hung out for 3 hours and just like, it was so cute, I was like, I just gotta live my life again. I think that's where I'm at, but I think I just sort of returning to this new version of myself, and so I'm just trying to get to know her right now.


Amy Yeah, I'm like, That's really special, and I think that's something that feels like a good transition into a new self, and I want to keep those good vibes going. We need that right now. So what is your antidote? In other words, what is something non-work related that's bringing you joy this week or this month?


Phoebe Robinson So literally, I feel like my my evolution is I'm just turning into like Gwyneth Paltrow meets Brené Brown.


Amy Those are two good people to combine. Those are two good right ladies to combine. Honestly.


Grace I know.


Phoebe Robinson So I started keeping a gratitude journal that I write and you write in the morning and the evening of each day. And so that's been like a good thing that I'm doing and I'm meditating. I try to meditate five times a week to sort of just like.


Amy Nice.


Phoebe Robinson You know, I've been going to therapy. I started going like a year and a half ago. I realize I'm emotion minded and so it's really good for me to just have meditation as a way to sort of just start the day, sort of even because I know that I could just be, you know, I'm a passionate person, so I need to just sort of, like, ground myself so that I won't be as passionate all the time.


Amy I love I've never heard that phrase. Could you describe what emotion minded is?


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. So it's like basically like if something happens, good or bad, it can be stressful, it could be exciting. Whatever emotion I feel is like, what happens first. And then my brain catches, Oh, I could be like stressed out about something and I'll catastrophize instead of just like, then if I'd give myself like an hour, I can be like, Oh, here's the way that I could absorb it, and it's fine. But I just go with like, whatever emotion evokes in me, and that's what happens first. And so I have to like sort of play catch up mentally.


Amy Oh, wow. I love that.


Grace I can relate to that a lot. Phoebe, let me ask you another question. What would you say is your proudest non career accomplishment?


Phoebe Robinson Hmm. Whoa. That's a good one. I think my proudest accomplishment is probably that I. Became a traveler like I used to not really travel and experience the world just because I financially couldn't afford it. And you know, growing up my parents weren't really travelers. I love them, but they like they like to just be at home. They don't like to go out to restaurants. They just like to do their own thing. And so once I paid off my credit card debt and my student loans like summer of 2017, I just like, you know, would travel to see U2 concerts Or like, you know.


Grace I know you and Bono have a special relationship.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah, I love my my I love my short king Bono and you know, going on solo vacay at the end of the month and I'm just like really enjoying just sort of experiencing other cultures and whether it's the food or just like, you know, going to sort of like tourist attractions, it's just really nice to. You know you once you have like you routines you like I go to this coffee shop and I go to this store and I go to this bookstore. You feel like your world is just that. And then when you get out. Oh my world, it's like literally a speck of dust. And, like, it's just great to see how other people, especially not in America, how they live. And it's it's so not work oriented in a way, which is refreshing.


Amy Yeah. And I bet it still feeds your creativity. Like just being a human out in the world and absorbing the world is going to feed that creativity.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. Is that a good accomplishment? So some people are like, Oh, I ran a marathon.


Amy Oh, no.


Grace  That's a wonderful accomplishment.


Amy This is a deep ass accomplishment because it's not just I travel, it's literally I empowered myself by paying off my debt and taking ownership of my finances. I learned how to save and become a traveler. Like, that's huge. That's like.


Grace Yeah.


Amy Healing.


Grace And, and then also it's great that you're curious about other places because I've noticed that not everyone is curious. Sometimes people want to travel and they want to like, you know, eat and they want everyone to speak the language and they want to like stay on the resort. But I think it's wonderful that you're curious about how other people live. And I think that that is something that not only feeds your creativity, but sort of feeds you as a human being.


Amy I also really like you talking about it in context to your like, I don't know if this is a term debt journey, but like literally in context of like coming out of debt and taking care of yourself because and I also love that that's part of your show like that. That is like part of the character of Phoebe Hill in Everything's Trash is that she's in debt and has a lot of bills to pay. And I'm actually curious, like, how has it felt for you drawing from your real life to become storylines and sort of like even influence characters on the show, like your brother character? Is it embarrassing? Is it fun to be able to pull from your real life?


Phoebe Robinson It's really fun. And I think in particular with the Money essay, when I started working with my showrunner, Jonathan Groff who is just a dream.


Amy A legend. I love him.


Phoebe Robinson And a vision. I love him so much. And the money essay that I wrote in the book, Everything's Trash But It's Okay was one that really that really resonated for us. And we're like, Oh yeah, this really informs, you know, someone living in New York. And I think so many shows such as Sex and the City, which is canon for me. I love it. I watch it like once a year, like I don't judge it at all. But when I was in Ohio, it was like I would watch that. I would watch like Living Single, watch Felicity. So it's like, Oh, I'm going to come to New York. I'm going to have a loft apartment. One day I'm going to have all these insider clothes and blahblah blah. It's like no one has a loft.


Amy That's not a thing.


Grace First of all, you're rich if you have like an extra bedroom. Like like you know what I'm saying. Like you if you got a coffee table, you doing better than most, you know.


Phoebe Robinson And so with this show, I really wanted to show. I think often when people think about representation, they think about gender and think about race, which makes sense. And for me, as much as I love New York, there is so much class going on, you know, like what you can afford. Like, I didn't go to theater. I didn't go to Broadway for like the first 15 years I lived here because I could freaking afford it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so, like, I want to show this character on the outside. She has this successful podcast. It's gaining ground, but she's in her early thirties and she still doesn't have control of her finances. And, you know, she's, you know, eating dollar pizza and like hiding the reality of her bills from her friends and her roommate. And I feel like so many people have been through that journey and I feel like, yes, you want the show to be aspirational. But I think you could also be grounded in sort of what it is like to live in New York sometimes.


Grace Yeah, I mean, I can relate to that a lot because like I literally came to New York on the Greyhound bus and I was like I was like, I got a paid internship and I was living with my aunt in the spare bedroom. And yeah, it took a long time. But I think also what's great about like that time in your life is that you're so excited just to be there. I'm from Michigan and I know you're from Ohio, but like getting there is like it's so hard in many ways, but then it's like your your whole spirit is lit up from coming from this other place to New York City, which is like bright lights, big city. Until I left, I still like would sometimes look up at the Empire State Building and be like, wow, I did it. I'm here.


Amy That's so cool. Do you have any. Wow, I did it moments, Phoebe? Like I saw the video you posted on social of seeing your billboard in Times Square that warm my heart. Are there any even if it's small like, oh you like got the perfect coffee that you have. Like, wow, I did it. Moments in New York.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah, I mean, I think so. I moved into a new apartment and I'm in my office and right now I'm looking at the Statue of Liberty. And so.


Amy  Wow, you did it.


Phoebe Robinson I mean, she she's small, but.


Amy She there.


Grace You can see her. But you can see her. Okay?


Amy You see the pleats in her skirt.


Grace You can see her little green ass. You know what I'm saying?


Phoebe Robinson So it's just like nice because we were on the zoom for the writers room and half of us are in New York and half was in L.A. So it just was nice when we're having like creative discussions and I can see the "statch" or if I'm just writing by myself and it's like 11 p.m. and I'm like, Oh, I'm so stuck. And I just look at the "statch" and I'm like, This is like, so no one calls it the "statch."


Amy I love that you call it the "statch." Staring at the "statch", getting inspired. I'm in my mid thirties staring at the "statch".


Phoebe Robinson But it just was like it's one of those things where you're like for so many people, for so many generations the "statch" LOL was like this beacon of hope and like a new beginning and like my life is going to start here because I'm in New York and I kind of feel that way too, when I look at it I'm going through this transitional time, like career success, personal life challenges. And I just feel like I'm shedding like, you know, Phoebe 3.0 and now there's 4.0. And it's just really cool to see like, oh, wow, I'm like not living in a basement apartment with a mice problem. Like, things are. Okay, you know.


Grace You've done it, girl. Two time New York best selling. Often, girl. Yes, you did it. That's that's beautiful.


Amy And on that book notes, you are a publisher-ess. Okay. So your imprint, Tiny Reparations, which, by the way, great name, specializes in authors of color and women and queer voices. I want to know, what books are you reading right now that delight you?


Phoebe Robinson I have my phone here, so I actually write down, I think starting since 2015, I write down every book that I read. So I can actually tell you the most recent books that I've read.


Grace That's so good.


Phoebe Robinson Is it? Is it good or is it?


Amy That's really smart.


Grace I think it's great because like sometimes I have a good reads account. So that's kind of what how I keep track of the books that I read and I do the little book challenge every year - how many books can you read in a year.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah, I love that. So I really this is a poetry collection written by Jasmine Mans called Black Girl Call Home, and I really liked it. That was phenomenal. I loved Mikki Kendall's Hood Feminism. I thought was really good.


Grace Mhm.


Phoebe Robinson And what else? Oh, The Gift of Imperfection.


Amy Oh yeah. I love that book.


Phoebe Robinson That dragged me.


Amy It literally dragged me.


Phoebe Robinson I was like, I was like, okay.


Amy I'm like, why you know? How do you know me and why do you hate me?


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. And then I really liked it. I know this is biased, but my but the last book that was published on my imprint called Portrait of a Thief by Grace Dealey. It's our first New York Times best selling book on our imprint.


Grace Congratulations.


Amy Congratulations.


Phoebe Robinson So exciting. She's a debut author. She wrote it while she's in medical school.


Amy Oh, so she's also a genius.


Grace What a bad bitch.


Amy What?


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. And I told her when I first met her because I read the first page, I was like, Oh, my God, I'm so obsessed with this. So I devoured the book in like a day and a half. And I was like, We have to get this book. And when I when we resumed with her, I was like, Girl, you're you're not a doctor. You're a writer. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but screw medical school. Because you're a writer, and so to see a book like hers be successful. To me, I'm like, That's proof that we could tell other narratives that aren't mired in sadness, you know.


Amy That's awesome.


Grace Yeah, that's, that's really great.


Amy It also feels like a full circle moment. Like you, Phoebe Robinson had difficulty getting your first book published, and then you started your own publishing imprint. And now you are giving authors their first taste of what it feels like to know that you're worthy. Have you ever, like, walked through? Like, who didn't publish a book? Have you ever, like, walked through and done like the what is it, Pretty Woman? Like a big mistake. Huge. Like, just like, show up for a meeting. They're like, we have a meeting with Phoebe Robinson and then just stand up and march out.


Phoebe Robinson I haven't done that. But, you know, honestly, my publisher, Bloom, was the only place that wanted my book, every other place that, like my, my agent sent my proposal to, they were like, no, this isn't going to sell. It's like not relatable. No one wasnts to read essay collections by Black women. And I was like, This is 2015. This feels ridiculous to me. Yeah, I gotta say that like I was, I always thought, you know what, like, Hollywood is so white. And then being a publisher, I'm like, publishing is so white. It is.


Amy Whiter than white.


Phoebe Robinson It's it's whiter than white. And again, it's a class thing, like you know, if you're like an editorial assistant, they're paying, like. $35,000. You cannot live in New York on $35,000. You know what I mean? And so it's a lot of people who are like they have connections or they come from money and they can have this experience and they don't have to worry about their bills. And I'm just sort of like publishing should be for everyone. This is just greedy. It's just greedy. Yeah. Yeah. And like to have this sort of kind of air that can only be for the people who can afford to be a part of the industry. Always is kind of heartbreaking for me. Yeah. So I really like trying to do my part. But you know, this industry's been around for so long, it's hard to like overturn change or, or, make change happen quickly. It's going to happen slowly, but. GIRL Yeah, I love the publishing industry, but I'm also like, we got a lot of f---ing work to do because this is too messy. It's too messy.


Grace So when you write, when you were in your fabulous and new apartment, when you're looking at the "statch", who are you listening to these days? Like, what do you like to listen to music first of all, while you write or?


Phoebe Robinson Absolutely. I love it. It's great.


Grace So so who's got you?


Phoebe Robinson I mean, this is probably the the part of me that is truly the old soul, because I'm like. Like no one and. And listen, I have no musical talents. I'm not, who am I to say or judge, but I feel like no one like new people. Like but even people are like, oh, my God, Harry Styles. I'm like, yes, he's goodlooking but I'm like, Honey. Grace Jones Yeah. David Bowie. Annie Lennox. They were doing this 30, 40 years ago and the songs are better. So I'll just listen to those. You know.


Amy Respect. Respect.


Phoebe Robinson So I just listen to like a lot of like I've been listening to a lot like Chaka Khan, like Fleetwood Mac, you know, like that's what I've been listening to. And then I've been super recently I've just been listening to like Pete Tong, who does like a lot- he DJ's, does like a lot of EDM. So I've just been like listening to EDM music.


Amy You're like in the club at your desk, just jerking around and typing real fast.


Phoebe Robinson I'm like, yes, I'm loving this remix to this song from like 92.


Grace I just I just imagine you just like standing dancing with your computer, your laptop, like.


Phoebe Robinson I'm just like damn. There's a current current person I do listen that I'm obsessed with. Her name is Lianne La Havas.


Amy Oh, I love Lianne La Havas. She's she's amazing. It's what you don't do. That's one of her songs. Yes. I love her.


Phoebe Robinson She's great. I'm like, I want to write a movie and have her like do the soundtrack. Like I - that would be so cool.


Amy That would be so cool. Lianne, you're listening. Miss La Havas. Miss La Havas. Now's your chance. Call, Phoebe. Find her on the Internet. DM her. Slide in.


Amy Wow. I feel so much better now that we've talked to you. Pheebs, this was awesome.


Grace Yes, she is right. Sh-- still sucks in America, but it sucks a little less because we've talked to you. Yeah.


Phoebe Robinson No, this was great. And it's just like, you know, the world is just heavy right now. And it just seems like I don't know if you guys, but I subscribe to, like, the New York Times alert which just-


Amy I had to turn them off.


Grace Yea, you got to turn those off.


Amy I had to turn them off.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. And I think we're kind of living in a culture that's sort of like Pavlovian and sort of like that every 10 minutes. Here's some more bad news for you to read. Yeah. And so, you know, not to bring it back to my show, but, like.


Amy Everything's Trash right now. Yeah. Yeah.


Phoebe Robinson And one of the things that I love about the show is that like. You know, for me, it's so important to just see. Distinctly different Black people living their lives. Being confident, having fun. Yes, I remember. Like when Groff and I were pitching the show around and sometimes execs would be like, well, what's the hook? And I'm like, what's the hook to any of these slice of life white lady, white dude shows. It's just like they're existing and their humanity is their hook, so. And I feel like people don't think that our humanity as Black people, specifically as Black women, is enough.


Grace Yeah.


Phoebe Robinson And I'm like, it is. And so I just wanted something that was buoyant and joyful, and I just want us to feel better and laugh a little bit because we just can't live in the muck because we're all going to be depressed. We're not going to be able to change the world the way that we have the potential to.


Grace 1,000%. I mean, you got to keep your vibes high. Like, especially if you believe, you know, even a little bit in the law of attraction. We have to, like, keep ourselves up here. We have to keep vibrating on a high level so we can bring people along with us, you know, because getting dragged down into the muck is not gonna do anything for anyone. I don't know why the industry is so obsessed with, you know, high concept things because, you know, like, literally one of the most successful shows, Friends, was just like a bunch of people just hanging around in apartments. Like, yeah, so bizarre that people always want to have this hook. Yeah, why can't it just be that. You know.


Phoebe Robinson Even Ted Lasso is just a guy who's clearly on the spectrum and does not respect boundaries but wants to bring joy. Yeah, like that's the whole show. That's it.


Grace Yeah, that's it.


Amy Yeah.


Grace You know.


Amy Simple. It's a simple premise.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah.


Amy Yeah.


Phoebe Robinson Yeah. So. You deserve that, too.


Amy We deserve that, too. Yeah.


Grace And everybody, please check out her show. It is so funny.


Amy Oh, my God. It's on.


Grace It's on Freeform and then it's on Hulu right after. Right?


Phoebe Robinson Yes. It's streaming counts so please stream stream stream.


Amy Do you have anything else that you love that you want to plug? It can be something you love and not something you created, just something you're into right now.


Phoebe Robinson I really love Southside. I think it's one of the funniest shows.


Grace So funny.


Phoebe Robinson It's so funny.


Amy It's so funny.


Phoebe Robinson And I'm like, I'm like, this is a show that white people aren't going to get into. And I don't give a f--- because it's so brilliant and so fantastic. So I really love that show. Yes. And I've been rewatching I've been rewatching like romantic comedies. And oh, Amy, that book you sent? I read it. Yeah, I read it last year.


Amy Game Changer.


Phoebe Robinson Over Christmas. It's so good.


Amy It's so good.


Phoebe Robinson Um, so I like  rewatched Something's Gotta Give and I'm just like, I love a Nancy Meyers moment.


Grace Oh, that's a great one.


Phoebe Robinson I'm like here for the boug. I'm here for the, you know, linens and everything. But I just, you know, I just love that movie because I'm like, Diane Keaton is like f---ing 60 in that movie and, like, having sex. And I'm like, Yeah, this is so f---ing cool. Yes. And that that movie came out of like 2002. And I'm like, I think we kinda forget how rev-, yes. It's sort of like showing like elite coastal like coastal elites or whatever. But I'm like, this is a sixty year old woman having sex and falling in love and a guy younger than her thinking that she's sexy, like that's revolution. Yeah. And we got to honor that.


Grace Yeah.


Amy I love that. I'm going to go back through my Nancy Meyers collection and, you know, get it poppin this weekend.


Grace And where can people find you on the Internet?


Phoebe Robinson You can find me on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at dopequeenpheebs. P-H-E-E-B-S.


Amy Thank you so much, Phoebe. We love you.


Grace We love you.


Phoebe Robinson I love you back.


Grace Bye. Okay to close us out. We're doing our creative tap in, which is our segment about creativity. Amy, are you ready for this week's quote?


Amy Yeah, I'm ready.


Grace Okay. Make visible. What without you might perhaps never have been seen. And that's by Robert Bresson. I'll say it one more time. Make visible. What without you might perhaps never have been seen. Robert Bresson.


Amy Mm hmm. That's a really lovely quote. I mean, it's deep as f---, honestly, I feel like, especially with the conversation we just had with Phoebe. You, me, Phoebe here on this call and others in, like, you know, our generation of storytellers from Issa Rae to Quinta Brunson to Nicole Byer, Michelle Buteau, like we're all literally trying so hard and working so hard to make visible what without us might perhaps never be seen. And not not to say that the onus is on us because all artists are trying to do that. It's not just us. We're all trying to reflect our humanity to our viewership, our readership. And I there's part of me that, like, feels, you know, so often this industry, people are like, what's your brand? And you need to be posting and get on Instagram. And it can feel kind of icky. But I think part of that visibility like being visible, is actually just to serve that function to be visible, like thinking of the guests we've had from Alok, Tunde to Ryan O'Connell. You know, it's like people are trying to make their stories and their visibility the story.


Grace Yeah.


Amy Yeah. And so this quote is is really powerful, I think. I don't know who Robert Bresson is, but he'd be saying it. He put his foot in this quote.


Grace He put his foot up in that quote.


Amy He put his foot in this quote because he really be saying some things.


Grace He be saying the truth.


Amy Yeah. Yeah. What does that make you think of?


Grace Well, first of all, it made me think of you because I'm just your tribe writers and what you're doing with them is so special and sort of creating a space for them to take the next steps in their career. And so you are providing a place where new voices can come through, and without you, they may not have had the chance to be seen.


Amy Thank you.


Grace You're very welcome. Giving you your flowers, sis. Otherwise, it just makes me think of those that came before us too. So as a creative of color, as an immigrant, creative, as, you know, all the different identities that I am, you know, I feel like this huge responsibility to use my life to show parts of my communities that have not been seen. So by me telling my stories, hopefully that would give permission for other people to tell their stories. And that is the number one thing I kind of want to do with my career. Of course, I have ambitions for myself, but I also have grand ambitions to become a person who can help people whose voices are typically not showcased to bring forth their voices with whatever influence I am given or will be given in the future. That's a huge dream of mine. And I have this wall of legends in my apartment and I look at it all the time. We have Dorothy Dandridge, I have Eartha Kitt, I have Maya Angelou. I have all these incredible people. And I look at them often and I sort of say a silent thank you because of all of the things that they did and because they were able to put things that hadn't been seen before in the world, I am able to put things that haven't been seen in the world. And I have such a gratitude and I kind of think of all of us as artists and creatives like in a huge circle, that we are continuously moving the culture forward and moving this world forward with our work, creating things that have not been seen. And I always get so excited when I see something or a community represented. Like there's a show on Peacock called We Are Lady Parts. It's so good and it's like about a punk band of like all Muslim women. And I it's it's incredible. And I mean. Makes me grow and learn and and just also just see a community that I hadn't seen before and be able to laugh and and experience the universal emotions that come with specificity. Because as we make things specific, we begin to see that our our humanity is more interlinked than ever before. So I do think that art is such a huge gift as far as understanding other cultures and realizing that other cultures are the same as us. So thank you, Robert Bresson. That is a fire ass quote that reminds us all of the importance of making art that perhaps has never been seen before. That's what it makes me feel.


Amy You already are. You already are.


Grace Thank you, darling. Thank you. Wow. Well, thanks for listening to the antidote. We hope that this injected a little bit of joy into your week. I know it did mine. How about you, Amy?


Amy I feel good, girl. We should do this again sometime.


Grace And in the meantime, if you'd like to follow us on social, follow me. Grace. At Gracyact. That's G-R-A-C-Y-A-C-T.


Amy And follow me. Amy at AmyAniobi. That's A-M-Y-A-N-I-O-B-I. And follow the show at theeantidotepod.


Grace That's thee with two E's.


Amy If you like, feeling good about yourself. Please subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.


Grace Goodbye.


Amy And look out your window and appreciate the view.


Grace As a reminder, we'll be going on hiatus for a few weeks. So please, please, please send us your antidotes and any requests for an antidote and anything you want to tell us that is bringing you joy. And we'll be back in a quick minute with new episodes on September 14. We will miss you, but please go to our social on Instagram at theeantidotepod. That's thee with two E's. We're going to have some fun treats while we are gone. And always, you can relisten to your favorite episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back soon.


Amy The Antidote is hosted by us Amy Aniobi and Grace Edwards. The show's production team includes Marcel Malekebu and associate producer Taylor Polydore.


Grace Our executive producers, Erica Kraus. And our editor is Erika Janik. Sound mixing by Derek Ramirez.


Amy Digital production by Mijoe Sahiouni. Talent Booking by Marianne Ways. Our theme music was composed and produced by TT The artist and Cosmo The Truth.


Grace APM Studio executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert and Joanne Griffith. Concept created by Amy Aniobi and Grace Edwards.


Amy Send us your antidotes once more, please. We're gone for a month. We will miss you. Send us your antidotes at and remember to follow us on social media at theeantidotepod. That's thee with two E's, y'all.


Grace The Antidote is a production of American Public Media.


Amy See you soon.